並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep15-%E9%A6%AE%E5%AE%87-%E5%95%86%E6%A5%AD%E8%88%87%E5%89%B5%E4%BD%9C%E4%B9%8B%E9%96%93%E7%9A%84%E8%A8%AD%E8%A8%88/id1565087227?i=1000530359856
