並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/72-%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E6%99%82%E4%BA%8B%E6%94%BE%E5%A4%A7%E9%8F%A1-%E5%B1%85%E5%AE%B6%E9%81%8B%E5%8B%95%E9%80%80%E7%87%92-%E5%81%A5%E8%BA%AB%E6%88%BF%E5%95%86%E6%A9%9F%E5%86%8D%E8%B5%B7-%E8%88%AA%E7%A9%BA%E8%82%A1%E8%82%A1%E5%83%B9%E7%82%BA%E4%BD%95%E4%BA%95%E5%99%B4/id1513810531?i=1000541546349